Season 7 Preview

Steveb · 2007-10-28 11:14:13

With some reference from henchman #2 along the lines of "Is this really time for a coffee?"

J_A · 2007-10-28 18:38:58

ok, I'm home now, i've been away since thursday. so here are my thoughts on this, after having read your replies.

jeez, the more I read and think about this, the more pi$$ed off I am. you all know (well, most of you know anyway, maybe except the person that - totally disrespectfully - referred to tony as a "that person") how worshiped tony is in my book. his death was the worst thing on the show ever. worst written, worst handled, and totally pointless. and him resurrecting (apart from it being totally unbelievable) would and could be (have been?) the best thing the show has done for itself in a long time. but I will not buy him being a bad guy. I won't. right now, I'm thinking I won't watch s7, despite tony. I mean, if they haven't jumped the shark with killing tony and michelle, now they have. all these twists and turns that we're thinking about are possible but the way I see it, they're unlikely.

first of all, remember we never bought tony as a bad guy - and now he's here. he's about to crash planes and kill innocents?! NO. never. sure, Almeida has always had that dark thing going for him and each and every one of us could see him as threatening (remember the Dina Arraz interrogation, to mention just one), but like I said a zillion times before, I don't see him sacrificing inocents for anything evil. never.

now, they're probably going to justify this with, the government killed my wife. but tony turning into a new stephen saunders? come on. I thought this was supposed to be a reinvention of the show, not a reversion to a prior state of things. another element of that is that tony's baddie look reminds me too much of the season 4 tony, the divorced, deep down in a hole of his own tony. that tells me he's bitter and his attitude likely stems from michelle's death.

now, tony's return is a shock to jack. but having the trailer reveal all this could mean two things: 1, it's obviously showing tony to lure the people in, to make them watch the season cause tony is back. but 2,since his return won't be a shocker any more, I'm afraid MFL was right and this will end for tony with him dying - this time for real. this would make me really angry. I mean, you killed the guy once, you don't do it twice. it won't be a shock any more. frankly, 24 has been a series of "we've seen it all before moments" since season 4. this doesn't look any better now. I'll gladly be proven wrong but for now, this is how I feel. then again, 3, this is only editing and tony is in essence a good-hearted guy and all this was a hoax...... yeah, how likely is that.

I'm at the point now where I'm seriously considering leaving s7 alone, despite tony. I won't watch him die again, and what were the chances of any one baddie to survive the season? apart from nina of course, but even she died eventually. if the reason for bringing tony back is just because he died "the wrong death", i.e. at the hands of the wrong person, and they plan to amend that situation by letting him die by jack's hand, then this is just not going to be worth it for me.

J_A · 2007-10-28 18:43:52

deadmanmoz wrote:

Just watched the trailer, no no no.
Tony bad guy, NO!
Although he did look mean with his new "Villian look"
When i look at him as a bad guy i start to believe it, here's why.
I imagine him being so annoyed at the writers for killing off Michelle and then Tony in s^^t ways so he goes bad.
Okay slightly random way of looking at it but sometimes i wanna go all "Villian" when i think about Michelle and Tony dying!
at the mo im not convinced into watching 24 day 7

I hear ya, moz. you're totally right. but like I said, I can see tony being angry and bitter and we have seen him like that. but even with michelle dead, I can't see him sacrificing innocents. I can see him wanting to kill himself after she died. I can see him drinking like he did, I can see him want revenge on jack, but I cannot see him going down the same road as saunders.

hardy24 · 2007-10-28 18:52:13

Okay, well for me, this will either be a brilliant, unconventional, risky return to form, or the final nail in the coffin, quite probably nothing in between.

At the moment, I really want to stay positive, optimistic, and dare I say it bang the drum, so that if it is a return to form, then people know about it.

If it's a complete calamity, then I'll glad bang in the last nail myself and i'll focus the site on celebrating the great TV that we've already had from the show.

And I do have to say, I think Tony looks cool in the promo.

J_A · 2007-10-28 19:13:13

hardy24 wrote:

Okay, well for me, this will either be a brilliant, unconventional, risky return to form, or the final nail in the coffin, quite probably nothing in between.

quite true, dan. this can't be anything in between. I think I'll wait to see how this plays out before watching the premiere. if tony ends up dying again, I won't be able to take it.

hardy24 wrote:

Okay, well for me, this will either be a brilliant, unconventional, risky return to form, or the final nail in the coffin, quite probably nothing in between.
At the moment, I really want to stay positive, optimistic, and dare I say it bang the drum, so that if it is a return to form, then people know about it.
If it's a complete calamity, then I'll gladly bang in the last nail myself and i'll focus the site on celebrating the great TV that we've already had from the show.

like some of us were already doing since s5...

hardy24 wrote:

And I do have to say, I think Tony looks cool in the promo.

SL270310.jpg?t=1192738394

24nut · 2007-10-28 20:26:59

J_a you make a good point about them actually showing Tony in the trailer, they could have easily just had Jack saying "thats not possible" and making us all squirm for 2 whole months about who the person will be, much like the end of Season 6 spoiler that leaked and then got changed.

Now one obvious reason, as you mention is to lure fans in, but if they wanted to go for pure shock value would they not just show Tony and then reveal properly that he is a villain when the episodes air. This must mean to them that its not that big of a deal to the ultimate storyline, what they have shown in the trailer anyway, it makes me think whether they are either going to do the whole "undercover" angle or something completely different with Tony, as dan said, this could be brilliant, or it could just suck.

I just think that the writers wouldn't be so short sighted to think that this would do the character justice, its like rehashing the Nina storyline 6 seasons later, i dont think they are that stupid. I know they have made some stupid discisions, some of the storylines in season 6 being of prime example.

But until we see at least the first 4 episodes we wont really know where they are going with this.

Last edited by 24nut (2007-10-28 20:30:01)

J_A · 2007-10-28 21:01:14

yes that's indeed my only hope, that they won't be that stupid. but as you know, I'm finding it hard to believe in them after everything. like you say, it's highly likely that tony being a baddie is not that big a deal to the storyline, so there's everywhere to go with it. either they will change it around or they will kill him. but honestly, haven't we already had too many "undercover moles"? if they're going to reinvent the show, then they would be stupid to keep up the whole repeating stories pattern going. I really don't know what to think. I suppose you're right. we'll see what happens. maybe there will be another trailer. and I hope that just because they showed jack take tony at gunpoint in the end, that they won't have jack shoot him. jeez, how terrible it would be if jack got to torture tony..... I just shuddered as I had that thought. oh my almeida....

J_A · 2007-10-30 08:33:55

the more I think about this, the less I believe he'll live to see the end of the day. normally the first villain of the season dies by ep 12. and how awfully disrespectful would it be if they really suggested he's been bad from day 1? it would destroy everything almeida stood for and the whole character carlos built over the years. the contempt in tony's voice when jamie was the mole, the interrogation of nina myers in season 3, the whole deal with treason in s3, and what about michelle? this would suggest he's just been using her like nina had used him - and I just can't unify those things with what I know of tony. everything would crash like a house of cards.

24nut · 2007-10-30 18:32:09

Surely the writers were and are thinking about these points. Because as i said in an earlier post, it would ruin the other seasons if Tony was made the villain from day 1.

Last edited by 24nut (2007-10-30 18:32:40)

J_A · 2007-10-30 20:12:12

sorry. I know. and I also know we have to wait and see. I'm just starting to fear this, that they would think it could be a good idea. I know I'm repeating myself. I just don't want tony's legacy to be written like this and I hope they actually know that.

hardy24 · 2007-10-30 20:21:48

Okay, this thought has just hit me, so i'll throw it out there, but I did read a quick interview with a exec/co-exec from the show, forget which one, but defintely one whose currently heavily involved in the writing, but when asked if he thought they satisfactoryily dealt with how it is that Tony is still alive, he gave an rather emphatic "yes, defintely, we do." - or words to that effect. Even hinting that they could have even gone so far as too include events and details from his supposed death and other things from series five in the explanation.

So..., Wondering, what are the odds do people think that actually, Jack knew Tony was still alive?, and that he help fake Tony's death, like Tony helped fake Jack's at the end of series four? - That would go some way too explain some of Jack's less distraught than we might have expected reactions when Tony "died", not saying thats how it was planned at time of writing Tony's death, but certainly these are details they could use. And looking at the trailer, it could be why Jack learning Tony is still alive is played down to less than you'd imagine it could have been.

You also have to remember with the trailer, that they've stitched together 2 minutes of footage from 3 hours of TV. Of particular note I think is the end of it, when Tony and Jack meet on what looks like a boat. You hear Jack shout "TOONNYYY!!!!", and in the context of the footage, it sounds angry, but you don't see Jack shouting that, it could have been lifted from a line which is actually, "look out TOONNYY!!".

Still Overall, fingers crossed that Tony is neither a simple "mole baddie" nor the new saunders, anything else, explained well enough and it might just work.

J_A · 2007-10-30 23:16:29

I know all that dan. you're right. the editing - they've always been good at that - might be misleading. and of course I'm hoping it is.

now as for jack knowing that tony was still alive - why not. I mean, it's just about the only thing that jack has done that tony hasn't been through yet. faking his own death.

as far as the writers go though, even with that rather emphatic answer, I don't trust them enough anymore to see that what they think is satisfactory is also something I deem satisfactory. I mean, just remember 5-13. they thought it was satisfactory, right?

by Almeida, I hope I'm wrong about this, I'll gladly admit I was wrong, I'll gladly give them credit if they manage to pull this off AND keep tony alive. I just don't see how they could. not with their track record.

what I'd really like to know is what carlos thinks about all this. I need a source, an interview, a youtube clip, ANYTHING to see how they got him to do this and what his thoughts are.

24nut · 2007-10-31 09:31:32

What if Tony was more involved with Palmer than we thought, we didn't see much interaction between the two, but maybe Palmer admired Almeida for helping Jack dissapear. We know Tony and Michelle were involved in the security business, but possibly he was involved on another level. Its so farfetched though, wouldn't explain why they are portraying him as a villain.

Or another alternative is that Jack has Tony at gunpoint and asks why he's doing this and who he works for. Then Tony replies with "Im working with Chloe and Bill" Maybe they are like all undercover, they purposely didn't show Chloe/Bill interacting with Jack, maybe they are after someone.

Last edited by 24nut (2007-10-31 09:36:32)

hardy24 · 2007-10-31 11:58:19

I've been curious about Chloe and Bills role really, as it does seem to undermine the FBI's role in the story if Chloe and Bill come in and provide Jack with all the support he needs, so I don't see them setting up shop as "the unofficial CTU", like they did for a few hours in Series Five. They've got to have some different role for them to play, to make it worth bringing them back, James Morrison didn't think he'd be back until very very late in the day, meaning theres a good reason he's back, it's not just "lets find something for Bill to be doing."

J_A · 2007-10-31 16:45:38

actually, the last i heard, JM said he'd be back around ep 6. for all we know, tony might be dead by then . or not. i just hope that the pointless killing of main characters will stop. I don't need to see tony die again. and I don't want to see bill die either.

24nut · 2007-10-31 19:19:56

Bill should live forever, for me he has reached that legendary status in 24. For me anyway.

J_A · 2007-10-31 19:57:17

24nut wrote:

Bill should live forever, for me he has reached that legendary status in 24. For me anyway.

don't twist the knife in the wound please, I'm already bleeding badly

24nut · 2007-10-31 20:35:51

are we allowed to talk about other spoilers in this thread related to this?

J_A · 2007-10-31 21:12:38

this is a spoiler forum so I'd say yes.

24nut · 2007-11-01 07:42:53

well we all didn't exactly know what Chloe and Bill role would be during this season, but Rajskub has said that [spoiler]her and Bill and operating a Rogue CTU[/spoiler]
, just thought this somehow may be related to this. Also i think their were rumblings about a rogue CTU a while ago, but not from one of the cast.

J_A · 2007-11-01 08:14:01

that's interesting... now I'm starting to believe the words of NinaMyers (a former member of the inside 24board) said, that 24 is becoming a parody of itself. however, if tony is rogue and what you're saying is true, then again there might be hope that they're all actually good. lol. thanks for the input. we'll see how this turns out.

I edited your post to contain a spoiler tag so we're certain not to spoil ppl . though I really think it's not necessary in this forum.

24nut · 2007-11-01 18:36:04

Thats what i thought, seeing as most people dont look at only certain parts of spoilers, they look at it all, but thanks anyways.

I think this could play a part with Tony and hopefully when it airs it will make sense.

J_A · 2007-11-01 18:58:27

well, let's hope so. as for the spoiler tag, dan can always remove it

deadmanmoz · 2007-11-02 16:16:15

I doubt Chloe and Bill know that Tony's a mole, if he is.
Coz they'd tell Jack straight away.
Tony looks like he does some serious damage in what you see from the trailer, Bill/Chloe would certainly tell Mr Bauer.

Im fearful for Tony, i get the horrid feeling of badness and death :-(

Steveb · 2007-11-02 18:44:02

The thing with the trailer, is that it says a lot but very little. It sets up that Jack is on trail and that the FBI need his help because he knows Tony better than anyone else. It sets up that Tony is apparently now a terrorist and it sets up a face off between him and Jack.

What we don't know is the logistics of any of these things. Is Jack able to work legally for the government if he's on trial. Is Tony really a villain? Could Jack actually kill Tony? etc. I don't think we can really judge anything until we see the first four episodes. It would be very easy for us to make assumptions given current feeling towards the show, but I'd personally say air on the side of caution for now.

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