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#1 2007-05-01 16:19:23

hardy24
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Episode 20

Topic for discussion of episode 20, which aired last night on Fox in the U.S. and will air on Sky One on Sunday the 13th of May in the U.K.

Usual warnings if you haven't seen the episode yet.


put your hands in your pockets looked away : andsmiled.com : blog

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#2 2007-05-13 00:43:49

J_A
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Re: Episode 20

hmm. no discussion?... well I just saw the eps up to 20 (i.e. 17-20) and whereas in terms of a TV show, 24 is still the best thing on TV, lots of things are pi$$ing me off in the way they're handled. lots of repetitions, although the same elements are then used in a slightly different way; that audrey was alive was not exactly surprising - I guess anyone who knows 24 would have imagined there was a ploy of some sort behind the news of her unexpected death. loved heller's statement about the jack bauer touch of death at the end of the ep - it's unfortunately very true. there was a time we thought tony was immune to it - thought wrong. "everything you touch, one way or another, ends up dead." probably the truest sentence of the whole season. some very good moments, details of which I can't recall right now (it is 2.40 a.m. and if I can't rem' them tehy prob weren't that memorable wink. I dunno. j/k, I guess).

for protocol: I hate them for firing Bill. they are consistently getting rid of everyone I care about. first tony, now bill. and not to mention palmer is out of play likely for the rest of the season and that sleezy VP is acting pres now. things aren't good. as for bill, again, I guess it is better than killing him. but I knew in the beginning as I saw he and karen were married that at least one of them won't survive the season, one way or another. looks like it's bill. but like MFL said, "would you like to see him die?"... the answer is not simple. of course the first impulse is to say no, but then again, they did it to tony, so why not to bill... I dunno. I guess I just don't really believe they'll let him walk into the sunset this way. if they bring him back next season, he and karen are likely to be divorced and in the end, killed. guess who that reminds me of... no, I won't go there. sh*t, I already did. oh well.

I'm torn here, I don't really know what to think. they screwed up the timing, got rid of the principal baddie too early and now we're chasing the chinese again. that scene and the fight btw jack and fayed was great, btw, and especially also the moment when ctu comes in and doyle sees all the dead bodies and fayed hung and his comment, I think it went "god, jack..." or something. big_smile. the cavalery got there late again. jack had killed 5 men alone. anything else new? wink.

I guess i should turn in now and hope someone discusses this in more depth with me


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#3 2007-05-13 08:26:51

hardy24
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Re: Episode 20

It goes without saying that there reusing stuff. What I think you have to look for are the small moments with them that do make them different. I thought everything between Jack and Audrey, especcially in episode, but also in 19 was terrific, very heart felt, but just with a sting of tradegy, a reflection of what has resulted from there relationship.

On Bill being fired, I was quite disappointed too, though i'm still holding out some hope there is a larger reason for this. We must remember he did get fired this time last year. I'm hoping that by the end of the day, or the start of the next he will be reinstated, or atleast "around" somewhere playing a role.

I would have to say that I feel as if Karen and Bill are almost a package now, without one, the other loses something. For each other they acted as a way for each character to "speak out loud" his/her emotions, without it sounding forced. If only one of them survives in the long run I think that character maybe a little flat, so either Karen will disappear as well, or Bill will be back.

On Heller's statement at the end of 20, I do believe that Kim made a similar statement to the effect of "it's not safe to be around you", in her brief return last year.

That's all I got for now.


put your hands in your pockets looked away : andsmiled.com : blog

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#4 2007-05-14 06:50:40

24nut
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Re: Episode 20

what Heller said really hurt Jack, Kiefer's acting was amazing.


"Please, as someone who was once your friend, let me die in peace" - Jack Bauer [Season 7]

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#5 2007-05-14 07:19:37

J_A
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Re: Episode 20

yeah I agree. he's had his own daughter turn away from him and now Heller, whom he had protected with his life gives him this attitude. of course, heller is hurt at seeing his daughter and blames jack for it, but really, was it jack's fault the chinese caught him? or that audrey went to china? not directly. he wasn't innocent in it either, but you know what I mean. it's just a father in pain speaking there.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#6 2007-05-14 11:40:39

smitten
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Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Episode 20

Quote of the season (from memory): "You're cursed Jack. Everything that touches you dies"

Sob. But he has already been told this by Kim, and as for Heller not wanting him near his daughter, not much there that Jack hasn't already said to Chase. He was hurt, you could tell, but he took it on the chin like the gentleman he is. He could have said, Look I've just got you your daughter back when all you did was give her up for dead. But I think he's satisfied that she's OK. Jack must by now have pretty low expectations of his own life. If his loved ones live, that's OK, he doesn't need to be there to see it, that's too much to ask.

Am I the only one who's glad of a break from Bill? I know he's solid as a rock, but he just so predictable, and I think he'd taken the character as far as he could within that remit. Unless he was going to do some field work and get exposed to plutonium or something. Anyway, clears the field for Nadia, who was in real danger of becoming the token Arab.

Mike gets ever more interesting. Now he's a basically good man with a vicious side to him, not the other way round. He's learned a bit from Jack. It must take some courage to invite Jack to jump you. Tony's the only one I remember doing this before...

Now I'm also worried about Chloe. She wasn't in her seat and we didn't see her at the end. Actually, for an episode where it didn't feel like much happened, quite a lot did happen. I'll wheesht now, before I get onto the love triangle from Stargate. Didn't you just love Tom's face when the VP told him who he was sleeping with? His jaw was on the floor! OK, now I'm officially finishing.

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#7 2007-05-14 14:32:11

J_A
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Re: Episode 20

from my memory, it went,

"You're cursed, Jack. Everything you touch, one way or another, ends up dead."

and is indeed, quite easily the best quote of the season


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#8 2007-05-15 09:47:16

24nut
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From: London
Registered: 2007-04-14
Posts: 376
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Re: Episode 20

that is a very cool line, Kiefer's acting was brilliant, not as good as the Fayed fight scene though, that should have ended the season.

Last edited by 24nut (2007-05-15 09:48:41)


"Please, as someone who was once your friend, let me die in peace" - Jack Bauer [Season 7]

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#9 2007-05-15 10:53:16

smitten
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Registered: 2007-04-12
Posts: 169

Re: Episode 20

24nut wrote:

that is a very cool line, Kiefer's acting was brilliant, not as good as the Fayed fight scene though, that should have ended the season.

I agree that these scenes are brilliant, but I think it was a stroke of genius to put the 'end' in the middle, right where we weren't expecting it. They could easily have strung out 'just one more lead on the nukes' and have us haring across the country till the end, but this is much more surprising.

On watching this episode again last night, I think I know what's happened with Chloe. Hope I'm wrong. Wasn't it a bit strange that Chloe made that jibe about 'not arming nukes for terrorists' right at that point? Strange even for Chloe?

Thought it was great when Heller was laying down the law to Jack that Jack couldn't meet his eyes, but sat with his head bowed. We're getting used to seeing Jack tortured now, but to see him speechless is another thing... I can also see Jack respecting Heller's wishes, so perhaps Audrey will makes the next move?

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#10 2007-05-15 11:34:44

J_A
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Re: Episode 20

I doubt it. for audrey it'll take lots of psychological counceling first. though on 24 these things seem to happen fast so i'd guess, 2 hours? wink tongue

as for "the stroke of genius", it was not intentional, they planned things badly and ended up finishing fayed's story in the middle, there was an article that said that. so they tackled on audrey's story on top of it. it seems to be working ok so far, but we'll see. I do agree the fayed thing should have ended the season - which would also have been what they'd originally planned to. looking back, in no other season had the main baddie been killed as early as ep 17, I believe. though you could say we still have one more baddie left who hasn't been dealt with - jack's dad, simply from my memory. I'd say he'd be back soon...


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#11 2007-05-15 11:41:18

hardy24
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Registered: 2007-02-28
Posts: 981
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Re: Episode 20

Season 2 did something similar to what S6 has done. The main plot wrapped up in 17 episodes, the last of those I really thought should have been the last of the season. (The bomb detonating, then cut to black would have been such an iconic moment)


put your hands in your pockets looked away : andsmiled.com : blog

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#12 2007-05-15 17:35:46

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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Re: Episode 20

mhhm, I dunno. you might be right, but with ending it with the bomb detonating would have been  a bit anti-climatic, don't you think? because it would have indicated they failed. and the story wasn't really all that wrapped up. but you're right, after that, they were chasing kingsley mostly, if I remember correctly. (I said, I really NEED a rewatch wink)


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#13 2007-05-15 19:02:00

24nut
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From: London
Registered: 2007-04-14
Posts: 376
Website

Re: Episode 20

maybe the finale will really be amazing, we'll have to see, but i would have loved for that fight scene to have been kept for the finale sad

But hey, the writers are amazing, so i respect their vision and i will wait and see big_smile


"Please, as someone who was once your friend, let me die in peace" - Jack Bauer [Season 7]

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