Direction in 24

Dyslexicon · 2008-05-14 20:27:38

First off, let me explain that the '24' panel at ComicCon last year was right around lunch time, so Cassar smelling like onions probably has a very reasonable explanation...

As for direction in the show...

I'm of the opinion that the direction of the show hasn't really gotten any worse, it's merely moved in a slightly different, er... direction. For example:
Season 6, episode whatever: Jack discovers Graem is the bad guy, and he's in town. He goes to interrogate him. Incredibly stupid? Yes. But look at the direction, the way it's cut, blocked, acted... There are a whole ton of good pieces in there. The lesson to learn is, no matter how incredible everyone on a show or a movie is, you can never ever overcome bad writing.

From everything I've heard, and I've actually worked with some people who've been on the show, they've all said what a great crew it is, how good the directors are, etc...

Granted, the Stephen Hopkins episodes were something special, and you have to hand it to the guy for creating a style that is the most easily recognized on television.

Anyway, give me Brad Turner or Jon Cassar any day of the week. Especially if you compare him to James Widdoes.

J_A · 2008-05-14 20:44:07

Dyslexicon wrote:

First off, let me explain that the '24' panel at ComicCon last year was right around lunch time, so Cassar smelling like onions probably has a very reasonable explanation...

LOL. ok, got it

The lesson to learn is, no matter how incredible everyone on a show or a movie is, you can never ever overcome bad writing.

true. directing really isn't my game, so I can't say much about it (especially since I haven't paid any attention to who directed which ep...) but there have been some major slips before writingwise, that sometimes got rescued by the cast by at least bringing it across in a credible way. but the worst malodramatic-hand-me-a-kleenex-before-I-go-to-Oprah moment is michelle telling tony "I'm ready to leave here, I'm ready to go with you..." in s4... some of michelle's scenes in s4 were simply awful. and that comes from a devoted Almeida fan and a Tony-Michelle shipper...

kiefer has saved bad writing several times, and so has tony, but I won't go deeper into that now. after all, this should be a directing thread, or so I've gathered

hardy24 · 2008-05-14 20:58:59

Ah okay, thats what you meant by smelt like onions, thought you where referring to his direction. My mistake.

Perhaps it's simply that Hopkins was too good, if Cassar had gotten in there first, maybe I wouldn't have such an opinion of Cassar's work.

You mention about bad writing, but I honestly feel as if even in seasons 2 and 3 when the writing was still of good quality (during those seasons better episodes at least) and they had everything going for them, his direction was still a bit, I dunno how to get my point across without being overally mean, perhaps "get the job done" is the phrase i'm looking for. Do you know what I mean by that?

Going back to Hopkins again, just because I can't help myself, again the comparison doesn't do Cassar any favours because Hopkins did work with the editors and the director of photography etc. to create this great style, and I get quite angry when I watch the seasons after the first and see Cassar drift slowly away from it without putting anything else in it's place, and I feel thats happened because Hopkins had the invention to see an extra beat or shot when it wasn't necessarily scripted.

Also, you mention Brad Turner there, I actually think his work, while still not quite up to Hopkins', has been consistently better than Cassar's, watch episodes 1 and 2 of season 6 directed by Cassar, then watch episodes 3 and 4, directed by Turner, there is a difference there.

While i've got you in a discussion about direction Alan, you got any particular favourite directors? anyone whose style you'd admit to seeing and stealing some ideas from?

Dyslexicon · 2008-05-14 21:58:03

kiefer has saved bad writing several times, and so has tony, but I won't go deeper into that now. after all, this should be a directing thread, or so I've gathered

I always have trouble separating the two, since everything but one show I've ever directed, I've had a hand in writing. In fact, that may be some of the "problem" with television as a storytelling medium, director are almost always kind of divorced from the story, as they're typically just contract workers coming in and shooting a couple shows, then moving on.
Even in cases like Jon Cassar's, where he's a producer of the show, I'm not sure how involved he is in the story creation.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm horribly inexperienced, and don't fully understand the pressure involved in directing episodic content. But I've worked on enough things, and directed enough other things that I can safely say, I'm not as emotionally connected to material that I haven't helped shape from the beginning.
That being said, I do usually like Turner's episodes better, and there's a reason Cassar's episodes feel like he's getting the job done. He is getting the job done. It may not be the prettiest, most imaginative stuff ever, but it gets done. Also, I have to stick up for his action direction. He probably directs the best action that's on television currently.

Dyslexicon · 2008-05-14 22:10:49

While i've got you in a discussion about direction Alan, you got any particular favourite directors? anyone whose style you'd admit to seeing and stealing some ideas from?

Woops, forgot to answer that.
I do have a couple favorite directors, now that you mention it. Peter Jackson, Stephen Spielberg, and, hear me out, Michael Bay.
Peter Jackson = LotR is the reason I started making movies. I'd always loved them, and thought, "gee, that'd be fun, maybe." But watching LotR made me realize just exactly what I loved about movies, and what I wanted to deliver to people: Worlds and stories and characters so lovingly crafted that they are 100% real. Every time I watch the Trilogy, I cry, not just because of the incredible acting, and beauty of the films, but because I feel like I'm losing friends, and I can never go to Middle Earth, at least, not in the way they did.
So there's that.
Spielberg = Hello... Spielberg! The man can do anything. Just look at the genres he's either re-defined, or created outright.
And finally...
Michael Bay = Bay teaches me what not to do, and exactly how to do it. Let me explain. His movies, though incomprehensible cesspools of putrescent excrement, are really, really exciting. They're big, flashy, gaudy money-makers. And while I like to think of myself as an artist, and a thoughtful entertainer, I'm also a businessman.
That's what makes filmmaking so hard. If you're just an artist, you end up producing beautiful things that no one understands (to me, intellectual masturbation,) if you're a businessman, you produce the same crap that Hollywood studios churn out 100's of per year, and if you're merely an entertainer, pandering to the lowest common denominator, you're Michael Bay.
But if you figure out how to combine all three, you're Jackson, you're Spielberg, you're George Lucas pre-1983, you're Seawright

My 2 cents.

hardy24 · 2008-05-14 22:53:52

I guess really it's all a matter of preference, yes i've seen Cassar's action directing getting better and I can pick out individual sequences of his that I do remember liking.

Though it depends where you draw the line with action, I think J.J. Abrams work directing the Pilot of Lost was some of the best fast paced directing i've seen in recent times, and it's a shame he hasn't directed more TV.

But your right, the best directing often comes out of a situation where a director is more connected with the entire production from the ideas very conception through to post production etc etc, normally because there is very little lost in translation between the departments, as well as a greater passion for the work.

A good example of this, and a pair whose work i'd recommend you'd have a look at as possibly a good direction for telekinesis is Director/Writer Edgar Wright and Writer/Actor Simon Pegg on first a TV show called "Spaced" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced) and then two films called "Shaun Of The Dead" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_of_the_Dead) (a spoof/homage to the Dawn Of The Dead and other zombie horror films) and "Hot Fuzz" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Fuzz) (again spoof/homage, but this time to the likes of Die Hard, Lethal Weapon and Bad Boys), both the films where made with largely the same cast, and with relatively small budgets, and is a format telekinesis could make (and sell without getting sued i'd think).

Anyway, favourite directors. I completely agree about Michael Bay, although I do perhaps think Bay's style has a shelf life, although then again I've been saying that a while. But yes, he's at one extreme of the profession, Bay is strictly a guilty pleasure.

Yep loved Peter Jackson's work on LotR, although i've not seen anything else by him that I actually liked, but i keep my fingers crossed. Spielberg is almost a given, you almost think Spielberg's been around as long as the concept of directing has been around.

Some of my personal favourites. Paul Greengrass, his two Bourne films I think set a new standard for intelligent Action. Michael Mann, just about every frame of L.A. was one I wanted to frame and put on my wall and Thomas Schlamme, the second season finale of the West Wing (Two Cathedrals) is still the best hour of TV drama I think i've ever seen.

Dyslexicon · 2008-05-15 00:03:04

Good man! I freaking LOVE Ed Wright and Simon Pegg. Though I've yet to see Spaced, it's a bit harder to get ahold of this side of the pond.

I really enjoy both Greengrass' and Mann's work, though they're not in my favorites for the following reasons:
Michael Mann - Miami Vice. What a blechtacular waste of 2 hours. But Collateral and Heat are both in my personal top 20.
Greengrass - all of his (admittedly mind-blowingly spectacular) action is actually directed by Dan Bradley, his 2nd Unit Director. I know that's quite common, but I still prefer the Chris Nolan approach (present for every single frame shot.)

I still haven't gotten into West Wing, though I'd really like to find the time. I really love a good walk-and-talk.

And yes, J.J. Abrams Lost pilot was probably not only the best fast paced direction in recent times, it may very well be the best episode of television I've ever seen.

bauerpowerhour · 2008-05-15 04:34:25

I just want to third the motion on Ed Wright and Simon Pegg. My new Halloween tradition is a "Shaun of the Dead" / Michael Jackson's "Thriller" zombie double-feature. And "Hot Fuzz" made me laugh harder than any movie of the past decade. While we were shooting "CTU PROVO," I often thought that our tone resembled theirs (a film that functions as both a parody of a genre while fitting snugly within that genre), though we didn't pretend to rise to the heights that they did. In fact, I believe either Alan or I mentioned "Hot Fuzz" as a tonal template during our initial brainstorming sessions.

Dude, Alan, can't wait for your wedding on Friday!

Last edited by bauerpowerhour (2008-05-15 04:35:20)

hardy24 · 2008-05-15 09:00:27

Dyslexicon wrote:

Good man! I freaking LOVE Ed Wright and Simon Pegg. Though I've yet to see Spaced, it's a bit harder to get ahold of this side of the pond.

Thats good to hear, definitely try to get a hold of Spaced, over the course of 14 episodes you can really see them developing there style and just having a lot of fun.

I really enjoy both Greengrass' and Mann's work, though they're not in my favorites for the following reasons:
Michael Mann - Miami Vice. What a blechtacular waste of 2 hours. But Collateral and Heat are both in my personal top 20.
Greengrass - all of his (admittedly mind-blowingly spectacular) action is actually directed by Dan Bradley, his 2nd Unit Director. I know that's quite common, but I still prefer the Chris Nolan approach (present for every single frame shot.)

Ai, good points.

I still haven't gotten into West Wing, though I'd really like to find the time. I really love a good walk-and-talk.

Schlamme practically invented the walk-and-talk, his work on Studio 60 is also worth a look, there are long all in one shots which reported took 8 to 12 hours to light and set up.

Dyslexicon · 2008-06-07 17:23:40

Just pre-ordered the new, all-region DVD set of Spaced. Comes out July 22nd, and as far as I can tell, it's the first release that's available in the US. Needless to say, I'm counting down the days.

hardy24 · 2008-06-07 18:23:44

Good good, hope you enjoy it. Let us know what you think when you get it.

hardy24 · 2008-06-11 22:22:19

Alan, thought i'd flag this up for you, to promote the Spaced DVD set in America, Simon Pegg, Edgar Wright and Lead Actress Jessica Hynes are going on a promo tour with stops at Comic-Con in San Diego, Austin, New York & L.A., I guess they reckon they need to generate some press for the DVD to actually sell, since I don't think it's had any kind of TV airing.

More @ http://aintitcool.com/node/37039

Dyslexicon · 2008-06-25 14:41:52

hardy24 wrote:

going on a promo tour with stops at Comic-Con in San Diego
More @ http://aintitcool.com/node/37039

Excellent news! I missed them last year when they were there, and I've been kicking myself ever since.

Think they'd like CTU:Provo?

hardy24 · 2008-06-25 15:08:04

Dyslexicon wrote:

Excellent news! I missed them last year when they were there, and I've been kicking myself ever since.
Think they'd like CTU:Provo?

They might do, although if might be asking a bit much to get them to sit down and watch it there and then and give you an opinion.

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Direction in 24

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