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#1 2010-01-31 16:23:36

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
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discussion of episodes 08x03-08x05

as it is, the forum, site, and me seem to be quite slow, and I am not downloading this season, so I am restricted to watching online, which means I cant run and rerun moments I'd like to see, so my memory of everything is sketchy at best.

for example - referring to dan and steve's posts in the 08-01 discussion thread - who is Buffy husband? and who does Starbuck refer to? I like the nicknames, but can't put cahracters names to them.

that being said, my main point about these eps has to be

Renee Walker.

that chick's insane - right? no, she's totally bauer. not only did we have the "I'm gonna need a hacksaw" moment there in ep 4 ("I'm not gonna cut the bracelet") but imho, the writers are putting renee into a place that jack has been to before, and making her the next tony of sorts.

let me explain.

renee between s7 and s8 is in a dark place, the kind of place jack was in between s1 and s2 (and come to think of it, it's also the place that tony's been to between s3 and s4). she'd "gone through a rough patch" and claims to have come out on the other side, but jack doesn't believe her.

so, now they're putting renee back undercover with some really bad people she used to be undercover with (hello jack in s2 AND s3) and hear hear, part of her cover story includes mexico (really no need to comment on that). apparently she'd been beaten by vladimir (btw, love that actor, knew him from californication) and she willingly agrees to go back - knowing very well that chances are that she won't make it out alive.

talk about a deathwish...

what she'll need in order to snap out of it is a purpose - just like a purpose, a mission, made jack overcome his deathwish in s2, and helping to save a friend and see things through with him made tony rediscover a purpose in life in s4 (of course, combined with reuniting with michelle). so my guess is that by the end of this season, assuming renee will make it through, she'll have found a reason to live - might that be jack?

at this point, though, bauer is no more than a babysitter - and not a very good one either. who DIDN'T know that car was a decoy? jack... really. I'd have thought he would have checked for the possibility of being screwed over... but oh well. maybe that's cause he'd been out of the field. he needs to resharpen his senses, especially his 6th sense.

renee, on the other hand, and her development, is running the show right now. at the very least, she's stealing bauer's show. the parallels continue. that she "cut off thumb!" in order to get rid of a bracelet like jack had done in s3 has already been mentioned - but I guess you really didn't expect that of a girl, didya? I dug that.

renee's changed, and as dark as the change is, it suits her. I actually like her better this way. i even prefer her current looks to the kempt and shirt-and-suit-dressed fbi agent.

if tony used to be the one that - with time - went through basically everything jack had gone through, now it seems to be renee's turn to go through the things jack (and by extension tony) had gone through.

this season will probably be relatively renee-centric, and we'll see her dealing with similar questions and situations that jack had had to deal with in the past. there should be interesting moments, and you know, wasn't it kind of ironic that ajack accused her of being unstable after she'd cut off the thumb when - as renee rightly said - he would have done the same thing? renee will probably get to use that same phrase often enough to justify her actions in the field, while jack might continue to feel the need to protect her from becoming like him.

one more word about jack before I go and do stuff I should be doing. we've seen him resist getting sucked back into the world of CTU for longer than he usually has, and like someone suggested, it might be a recurring theme this season, with him trying to take every chance he has to get out. but I liked it that his reason for actually allowing CTU to get him back was renee. that it was his human component, his worry for renee and wanting to protect her, that made him stay, and not just some monumental task of saving the world (yeah, the nukes are getting REALLY old. how often will terrorists manage to smuggle nuclear weapons into the USofA??)  jack's motivations are human and emotional, and I guess that's also why I still care.

I like the pacing of the eps, the slow development, and think they have pretty much learned from s7. the side- and subplots are interesting enough, and the characters' 3-dimensionality is acceptable.

there are lots of things to complain about however. first of all, who does background checks at CTU's HR office? how does an ex-con get on the CTU payroll? how does hastings get the post of CTU director without having investigative blood in him? and who designed CTU as a diner? seriously, the first time I saw pics of the new CTU it reminded me of a family diner... like Dennis or something. but for now I'm willing to suspend my criticism, because of renee and because of jack.

and because, frankly, once 24 is over with, I will miss it.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#2 2010-01-31 19:55:59

Steveb
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Registered: 2007-03-07
Posts: 319

Re: discussion of episodes 08x03-08x05

I'll write about these episodes later, but just to clarify for you that Starbuck refers to Dana Walsh as that was the role that Katee Sackhoff played in Battlestar Galactica and Buffy's Husband refers to Cole as Freddie Prinze Jr. is married to Sarah Michelle Gellar who played Buffy.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#3 2010-01-31 22:48:55

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
Website

Re: discussion of episodes 08x03-08x05

thank you, Sir Steve. and I'm looking forward to your post as your insights are always very insightful big_smile. yes. I'm tired. lol.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

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#4 2010-02-01 11:56:01

Steveb
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Registered: 2007-03-07
Posts: 319

Re: discussion of episodes 08x03-08x05

Well J_A as you asked so nicely, here are my views on episodes three and four. I'm successfully watchng week by week this year, so haven't got as far as episode five yet.

It happened, I knew it would, it was bound to happen in fact. It's sort of crucial to any story-telling exercise. What are you blathering on about I hear you type?! A PLOT!!! We have a plot!!! It only took three hours and twenty-three minutes but suddenly we have a story. A Nuclear story nonetheless.

Now, in the days before Star Trek: Nemesis and the rise of JJ Abrams, there was an unwirrten rule that any Star Trek film wth an odd number involved would be terrible, and so it seems to be that in 24, every even numbered season has some sort of threat involving the middle east and nuclear weapons. Hopefully, however, the combination of Middle Eastern west-hating fanatical type, some nuclear MacGuffining and a cartel of dangerous Russians will play out better than it did in season six. It's a bit too familiar, but I'm confident they won't cock it up this time. After all if this is the last season, then sure you won't to go out with a bang like a nuke in the mojave desert and not like a nuke in North Los Angeles.

Anyway, episode three was a bit rubbish wasn't it? Save of course for a fantastic last five minutes, when suddenly out of nowhere, the show became 24. Tension, action a palpable terrorist threat and a cliffhanger that wasn't actually half bad. Cole showing as he did again in episode four that he's got PJR factor (Potential Jack Replacement) in that he's tough, willing to make the hard call and also willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good. He's alsosleeping with someone from the office who isn't who he thinks she is. But aside from Cole's heroics in the last five minutes it was all a bit of a muddle. The Jack being beaten up by police subplot was shameful time-wasting of the highest order and achieved nothing other than the delay Jack until it was too late. The weird bit with the basketball playing gang near the start of the episode reeked of "Oh yes we need to remind people we're in New York. They have black guys playing basketball right?" and as for the continued inter-house politics at CTU, it was frankly bloody awful. And is it me or would it hve been better if they' prtended season six was a dream and just had Milo in place of Arlo, they are essentially the same character.

On a side note, which person thought it was a good idea to name the villain Davros? Possibly the same person who wrote such cringe-worth dialogue as "History is being made upstairs, and it's happening on our watch" and th beautifully expositional, "I don't care what her lawyer says, we can hold her for up to eighteen hours without charging her."

Thank god then for episode four. Renee's return was as shoehorned in with the best of them, but at least they've made her believably twisted, when it could have been done in a "Willow going mad in Buffy" kind of way. The relationship between her and Jack has developed brilliantly and it's almost like Jack haing emerged from his own dark place and having seen the effect it can have (the respective evolutions of Tony, Chase and to some extent Nina all spring to mind) want's to be he go shepherd this time and bring her back into the light. It's a nice dynamic and gives a great deal of scope for future stories, particularly with Jack not really wanting to be involved in the CTU side of things. Actually, I'm hoping that he doesn't keep resolving a situation, aim to head for the airport and get brought back by some unforeseen circumstance as it'll get very irritating.

After all the press yawing about the fire axe moment, I noticed that all the reviews I've read were very quiet on the frankly brilliant and overly gratuitous angle grinder moment. What I think made it so good, is Jack's reaction, partly because he's no longer a person who would do that, but also because he's seen what that can cost you.

So another mixed bag really, certain very clunky elements (the Dana Walsh storyline which I'm hoping will go a bit Lynn McGill before long) but also some promising signs of things to come (Wilson still being alive gives me hope.) One final odd spot, I'm sure that Hassan's chief security guy used to be a detective on The Bill which from a casting point of view, I find quite funny, but maybe that's just me.


"The water is unpalatable, to improve the taste we added Whiskey. By diligent effort I learned to like it." Winston Churchill

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#5 2010-02-03 20:20:30

hardy24
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From: London
Registered: 2007-02-28
Posts: 981
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Re: discussion of episodes 08x03-08x05

Episode Four was by far the best episode we've seen. We finally have a plot. The Jack/Renee dynamic is sizzling. Kapoor is acting everyone else off the screen.

All we need now is a competent CTU director, Buffy Hubby needs to kill off his fiancees b-plot. And Kapoor needs someone on the same level to play off, as his brother was the only one with anything about him.

Three was a nice ramp up.


put your hands in your pockets looked away : andsmiled.com : blog

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#6 2010-02-06 19:21:59

J_A
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From: CTU Zurich
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 1,436
Website

Re: discussion of episodes 08x03-08x05

i'm pretty sure things will start happening... as soon as tony comes into play! LOL

seriously, this smells of season 4. it's slow, it's a bit lame aside from renee's story, and she really is the savior of s8 so far. I keep waiting for tony to come and save the story, but no such thing this year, is there? right now, the show lives off renee and jack. i'm sure that someplace, sometime, somehow, something will happen that will move the - plot?, right, that's the word - ahead and into the right direction.

at the moment, subplots are self-serving and self-contained and partly unnecessary, they start and stop, and feel like "people, we gotta fill another 24 hours..." things are dragging...just like that holdup i like quoting... the one that jack pulled off in s4 to buy chloe more time... well... it's not that I'm not letting the show entertain me, but that's all it does. my investment is relatively minimal right now. i'm waiting for it to change.


tony.jpg

"Yeah, I didn't wanna believe Tony Almeida was a terrorist either, but at some point we just have to deal with the facts. Not with what we want to believe is true."

You need to start living in the real world! Because every second you help the government you're spittin' on Teri's grave!

Offline

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